E-mail Exchange With Victor Baines
Victor wrote us:
Subject: I really laugh hard reading your web-site
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:07:52 -0500
From: "Victor Baines" <victor baines@access4less.net>
Organization: Holographic Books
To: <skeptic@ntskeptics.org>Hello North Texas Skeptics,
This is Victor Baines of Ft. Worth (a Nostradamus author) and "advocate" of such topics as ESP, Telepathy, precognition, and astrology. I like "everything you hate" and do not believe in. ESP guided me to your web-site tonight. But I'm sure you would never accept that as truth.
In 1996 I wrote "in a future Christian/Muslim conflict, NewYork City will take a direct hit". And guess what? I was correct about that. But I suppose that you all are "too busy beating your owns chests" to take the time or effort to verify many things you think are incorrect. Yep, things like "truth" would be in oppostion to your limited views (and bizarre perceptions) of our greater reality here on Earth.
My idea for your group's motto should be "whatever it is--I'm against it"! Or, maybe, "please forgive us, but our closed minds don't allow us to think outside the tiny little bubble we live in".
I really can't believe the "ignorant and silly views" of your group as stated in your web-site! To me, I consider it "total comedy" as I read it.
Another way to look at ESP is this, forget about the "E" and "S", and simply ponder the "P". "Perception" is the key phrase, and so-called ESP is merely an extreme version of "P". A human's so-called ESP ability is rooted deep within the mind as a survival mechanism (left over from centuries ago). These days, hunters and soldiers rely on this for survival (but college professors have little need for it). If you had to walk through the hills of Afganistan with a rifle in your hands, avoiding enemy bullets, your ESP would be on high alert!
Attractive women, walking through dark parking lots, use their ESP to avoid contact with creepy men who might attack them. Ask some women if they use it leaving a mall (I know they do). It usually protects them well. That is proof!
When musicians play together on stage (without sheet music), they rely on "telepathy" as a tool to guide them through a song. And that is proof of it. Must I provide even more examples of it for you?
Something tells me that you all are "atheists". Is that your main problem with defining the universe? If so, denial of God could certainly lead one on a path of "false wisdom" (in my personal opinion). But even if there is no God, "most" of the things you don't believe in are still real and valid (ESP, telepathy, etc.).
Once upon a time, astrology was considered a science, then later replaced with astronomy. So things you don't believe in can be "the mothers" of future science. And that is an historical fact Jack!
The Unamazing Randi (as I call him) can be debunked on several issues. I have seen through his tactics on several occasions. He seems to be a pillar of negative thought (in my opinion). Was it the Marx Brothers who wrote the song "Whatever it is, I'm against it! "? I think it was. Have you heard that song before?
I could go on and on here, but I don't have the time now. I might have to attend one of your meetings sometime, instead of attending a comedy club, because it would sure seem like a barrel of laughs to me. Please write me back with your feedback regarding my views. I look forward to it.
Sincerely,
Victor Baines, Esq.
We replied:
Subject: Re: I really laugh hard reading your web-site
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 07:16:34 -0500
From: John Blanton <skeptic@ntskeptics.org>
To: Victor Baines <"victor baines"@access4less.net>Hello, Victor.
Thanks for dropping us a note. I am glad you had a chance to visit our Web site and check us out.
It's nice to meet another believer in ESP. We encounter them from time to time and even have them at our meetings. One has given two talks at our monthly meetings so far. We have also had presentations by ghost hunters, a practitioner of therapeutic touch, and a creationist. Maybe you would like to attend and give a presentation of your views.
For those who feel strongly that ESP is valid we provide an opportunity to give a demonstration. We even offer a $10,000 award to anybody who can successfully demonstrate ESP (and a variety of other claims of the paranormal). So far we have had few takers, and we still have our money. Are you interested?
Best regards,
John Blanton
The North Texas Skeptics
http://www.ntskeptics.orgWe received this response:
Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 05:16:31 -0700
From: Mail Delivery System <Mailer-Daemon@harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
To: skeptic@ntskeptics.orgThis message was created automatically by mail delivery software (Exim).
A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:"victor baines"@access4less.net
SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:<"victor baines"@access4less.net>: <br> host mail.access4less.net [64.63.192.7]: 550 <"victor baines"@access4less.net> is not a valid mailboxFinally, another note from Victor Baines
(Received 21 January 2003)Subject: Copyright Issues
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 15:46:31 -0600
From: "Victor Baines" <vbaines@airmail.net>
To: <skeptic@ntskeptics.org>Dear John,
I see that your "skeptics" group of North Texas has "no regard for truth". Or, possibly "they do" (but you do not)! I must seperate "them from you", because it is "your lie" that I am addressing here. I am not very humored by your placing my recent letter to you on your web-site (as if my personal views are something to be made fun of for all your visitors and members).
And here is where you "fail" as an ethical human being. On your web-site, you have a so-called "reply" to me, from you. And guess what? That is "not" the reply that you sent to me at all (you liar you). Your reply stated the following: "It seems that childern have sent us a letter using your name". And that was all it stated!!! However, "after the fact", you went back and "altered" your numb reply, by doctoring the text and adding some "goofy ass letter" to it, falsely stating that that was the reply that you sent to me (and it wasn't). Therefore, because I know the truth, that makes your so-called "reply letter to me" nothing more than a post-facto LIE! Are you getting this? Do you know what I'm talking about here? I know that I do! Therefore, what you state on your web-site is totally false. I guess your idea of promoting your lie somehow makes you feel good about yourself.
You guys remind me of "blow fishes" which puff themselves up with air, in an attempt to appear big and bad (so that they don't get eaten alive by the real fish in the sea). Just one little gobble by a real fish, and the blowfish is history!
Therefore, you have proven to me what I already knew was true (verifying what my personal ESP told me before I sent you my letter). You all "lie" to the public when it suits your needs (with no regard for the truth). And that is "the truth.
Secondly, I request that you remove my letter from your web-site NOW (in a timely fashion sir). My letter to you consists of "intellectual property" which was written by me. I hold the copyright to that letter (and I never gave you "permission" of any sort--express or implied) to post it on your web-site. Therefore, I insist that you remove it as quick as you can. Also, you DO NOT have my permission to place this letter on your site either. Do you have any regard to issues of privacy or copyright law? I strongly urge you to consider the possible impact of this, so out of courtesy, you can correct your mistake. Please reply to this letter as soon as possible. Sincerely, Victor Baines
I responded immediately
Subject: Re: Copyright Issues
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 05:07:24 -0600
From: John Blanton <skeptic@ntskeptics.org>
To: Victor Baines <vbaines@airmail.net>Victor,
So wonderful to hear from you. This had been starting off as such a dull day. Your gift for humor is like a ray of sunshine.
I do believe what I have posted is the actual e-mail exchange. I may have lost some of the mail, but I am sure I do not have the imagination to create it from scratch.
I did go immediately to our page at http://www.ntskeptics.org/challenge/baines/baines.htm to verify what is there. It appears I have added nothing. In fact the e-mail exchange seems absurdly short. I received something from you. I sent a single reply. My reply was rejected by the addressed mailbox.
The note mentioning "It seems that childern have sent us a letter using your name" as you state seems to be the kind of thing I would write (down to the bad spelling), but if I did I have lost the original. Please send it to me as a favor.
Again, thanks. I hope to hear from you again soon. Of course, this is contingent on your using a valid e-mail return address. Else you will not be able to receive this e-mail.
Best regards,
John Blanton
--
The North Texas Skeptics
http://www.ntskeptics.orgBefore I even sent my response, another e-mail from Victor Baines
Subject: PS to you!
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 16:09:52 -0600
From: "Victor Baines" <vbaines@airmail.net>
To: <skeptic@ntskeptics.org>Dear John,
I do not appreciate your reckless and thoughtless idea of listing me as a "kook" on your web-site either. That is a premeditated act of "defamation of character" by your organization, and I insist that you also remove that text from your web-site in a timely fashion.. I support dialog between persons of different views, but I do not support the idea of "public defamation of character".
If you think that you have my permission to make me the "kick dog of the month" on your web-site, you are very incorrect. You might want to re-think the wisdom of that concept (or the lack thereof), and correct your mistake.
Sincerely,
Victor Baines
I responded immediately
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 05:14:56 -0600
From: John Blanton <skeptic@ntskeptics.org>
To: Victor Baines <vbaines@airmail.net>Victor,
Wonderful! A second e-mail from you in one day. And I barely had time to respond to the first.
I am sorry if we have listed you in the wrong category on our Web site. We have several classifications of correspondents. If we have placed you in the "kook" section by mistake we will hasten to correct the situation. A suggestion from you will be helpful.
Again thanks and best regards,
John Blanton
--
The North Texas Skeptics
http://www.ntskeptics.orgVictor Baines responded
(Actually received 23 January 2003)Subject: Hello from the Nostradamus Society
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:27:27 -0600
From: "Victor Baines" <vbaines@airmail.net>
To: "John Blanton" <skeptic@ntskeptics.org>Dear John,
Thank you for your kind and professional reply to my 2 letters.
I admit that I had consumed "several beers" the night I wrote you guys my letter, and "yes", I did use a fake e-mail address on your form (but I figured you knew how to trace back to my real e-mail address, or find me
in Google--which is how I realized that you posted my letter to you on your web-site).
No, I do not have a copy of the letter I received from you (but I described the text to you, and you admitted that it sounded like something you would write). "Memory" is all I have to offer you on that one.
So you will know, I have "no intentions" of attempting to start W.W. III with the N. Texas Skeptics Society (I have better things to do with my time). All I am attempting to do, is to set the record straight, and kindly request that you "do not" list me as a so-called "Kook" on your web-site (and if you would also "remove' my letter from your web-site, or perhaps reclassify it into a different section, that would be great), I will leave the decision of what you should do to you. Hopefully, you will do the right thing.
Did you see me on the Discovery Channel recently? I was involved in a debate with Mr. Randi's lawyer buddy "Jack Latona" at Yale. Jack is the "only Skeptic" I have met, and I enjoyed visiting with him (even though we disagree on many topics).
Let me know what you plan on doing about this. You know what they say "have a great day"!
Sincerely,
Victor Baines
Dir. of the Nostradamus Society of AmericaI responded
Subject: From the North Texas Skeptics
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:20:50 -0600
From: John Blanton <skeptic@ntskeptics.org>
To: Victor Baines <vbaines@airmail.net>Victor,
Again, thanks for responding.
Well, certainly a person who corresponds with us using his own e-mail return address probably should not be in the "kook" section. I will do something about that.
This correspondence is being handled as a response to our $10,000 skeptical challenge, which appeared to be the intent of your original script. You indicated that ESP, predictions by Nostradamus, etc., are real and valid. We disagree, and we are willing to back up our stand on this issue. If you do not want to participate in the challenge, we will take future and unrelated correspondence off line.
The North Texas Skeptics works to expose the public at large to the issues related to claims of the paranormal, and we feel that presenting the thoughts of paranormal proponents as well as serious critiques to those ideas is one way to accomplish our job. To that end, we will publish proponents' claims as well as our rebuttals. We also promote the sale of books by paranormal authors (including you) on our Web site. We get a commission from Amazon when these books are linked through our Web site.
We conduct a series of monthly lectures, and we invite you to come and present your views. The deal would be you would come and speak for free, and we and the public would come and listen for free. Hostile questions are a given. You would, of course, be allowed to promote and sell your books in conjunction with your presentation. We advertise these lectures through free notices in the local papers and by other means in order to attract the widest audience. As always, these lectures are free and open to the public. Let me know if you would be interested, and we will schedule a date for you. Always on the second Saturday of the month at 2 p.m. in Dallas. Well, not necessarily always. We can for special presentations obtain a different time and place (e.g., a public library).
Best regards,
John Blanton
The North Texas Skeptics
http://www.ntskeptics.orgVictor Baines responded
(Actually received 26 January 2003)Subject: Re: From the North Texas Skeptics
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 01:40:27 -0600
From: "Victor Baines" <vbaines@airmail.net>
To: "John Blanton" <skeptic@ntskeptics.org>Dear John,
Now you are being "too nice" to me! "Kook" would be the wrong word (idiot or moron might be a more accurate description). Just kidding!! I am merely trying to "humor you" because I know how much you enjoy receiving my e-mail now (ha-ha-ha).
Regarding your offer--here is an idea for you. Your guru "Randi" gets paid for his appearances (I don't know how much, but it must be a tidy sum). So, I will consider speaking for your meeting while wearing a rubber suit. We can spread a sheet of plastic on the stage, paint a bull's eye on the front of my suit, so I can walk back and forth across the stage, while your members throw tomatoes at me while shouting out insults. That would cost you $2000!! Are you still interested? Wouldn't that be a "change of pace" for your meetings?
You could still hang on to $8000 as a "carrot" to tempt other "kooks" with for the future? What do you think?
Regarding your $10,000, I have NO INTEREST in it at all (your challenge means "nothing" to me). So, just classify my letter to you as a person who "accepted" your invitation to offer his thoughts to you regarding ESP (and other matters). That would be "the truth" of the matter (and "truth" is something I view with the utmost respect).
I haven't read the "fine print" of your challenge, but I know (via ESP) that it is "rigged" to a point that "no one" could ever walk away with it. Therefore, it does not concern me one bit.
However, 200 people X $10.00 per ticket = $2000 for me!! I would be willing to tell your people "all my crazy thoughts" regarding Nostradamus, ESP, and other matters that you all consider to be "ridiculous"!! I wouldn't be there as a "challenger" (just as a speaker for 2 hours--and "no" rubber suit). You could look at it as "comedy" if you wished, and consider it "entertainment" for the skeptics! It would be like "Hitler" hiring a Jewish comic for a Nazi rally!
What do you think? Am I "too expensive" for you Skeptics to hire? My ESP tells me that you can't afford a speaker of my caliber, so you will "say no" to me (at which point you guys will owe me $10,000, because you will have "proved to me" that my ESP is correct!!!) Get it? So which will it be($2000 or $10,000)?
When you figure that one out, send me an e-mail.
Sincerely,
Victor
I responded
Subject: Re: From the North Texas Skeptics
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 08:55:02 -0600
From: John Blanton <skeptic@ntskeptics.org>
To: Victor Baines <vbaines@airmail.net>Hello, Victor.
Again, thanks for responding.
OK, I have moved your correspondence out of the kook section on the Web page. I originally reserved that for people who ping us anonymously. I will try to answer the pertinent points or your note in order:
1. My last previous contact with Randi indicated he would appear if we paid his expenses. This may have changed.
2. We don't insult people who come to speak at our meetings. Check with some who have, including creationists, ESP proponents, therapeutic touch practitioners. Maybe others. Were you to speak you would get some very pointed questions, which I am sure you could readily answer.
3. Your lack of interest in the $10,000 is understandable. We hear that all the time. Such as from the woman who claimed to be able to dowse maps to find lost or hidden objects. To be fair to you, I am not sure how you could reasonably set up a demonstration of the validity of the predictions of Nostradamus. Since you don't claim to be a practitioner of ESP we would not expect you to be able to demonstrate it.
4. The "fine print" of the challenge protocol is that you have to be able to do what you claim. Or, in your case, you would have to demonstrate conclusively that Nostradamus was making reliable predictions. Yes, it is set up so nobody can walk away with the prize. We have chosen to require people to do the impossible--just what they claim to be able to do. The person who came to our meeting and claimed to be able to walk through walls (in the paranormal sense, without damaging the paint) would be required to do so while we watched. (He declined to give a demonstration.) Bette Epstein claimed the ability to find lost (or hidden) objects. She would have been required to find my car parked somewhere on a Dallas City street. If there is something wrong with these requirements please let me know now.
5. Yes, you are too expensive for us. We present free and open programs for the public, and that restricts how much we can spend.
Again, thanks for writing us. Please feel free to attend our meetings any time. Introduce yourself. Talk to our members. You will find a number who are interested in Nostradamus and the like.
Best regards,
John Blanton
--
The North Texas Skeptics
http://www.ntskeptics.orgVictor responded
(Actually received 28 January 2003)Subject: Re: From the North Texas Skeptics
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:42:21 -0600
From: "Victor Baines" <vbaines@airmail.net>
To: "John Blanton" <skeptic@ntskeptics.org>Dear John,
When I mentioned Randi, I was not suggesting a "duo" appearance, I was using him as "an analogy" about speakers "not working for free". That is all. I do "believe" in ESP and Psychic energy (I use both daily). However, I do not carry a card in my wallet which reads "Victor Baines--Psychic".
Let me assure you, its "not much fun" to stand in front of a crowd of people (speaking) when you know they don't believe a damn word you are saying (on the psychic level of reality it becomes a "draino on your head" pretty darn fast). Therefore, its not much fun at all.
Regarding my Nostradamus book, in one chapter I state (written in the 1990's): "in a future Muslim/Christian conflict...New York City appears to take a direct hit by missiles". Other chapters reveal events related to 9-11!! That is what I do claim.
Presently, I don't know how I could be of help to you. HOWEVER, now, or in the future, if you can think of an event that "might be mutually beneficial for each of us", I might consider participating in it (what that would be--I can't say at this time).
Hang on to your hat for a second (because I'm getting a "psychic vision", er, er, er, er, er, er, I'm seeing white light, er, er, er, okay--here it is, er,er, er!! My vision has revealed the following (its a little bit cloudy---but now its coming into focus....)----- The North Texas Skeptic's Society presents "A Forum on the Paranormal" which features speakers who advocate "the paranormal", and speakers who "doubt the paranormal". You guys could rent a building, invite me, astrologers, tarot readers (etc), and counter them with skeptics.
Each side could speak for 30 minutes each (on 4 or 5 subjects) on some Saturday or Sunday afternoon. You could sell tickets to it, put an ad in a newspaper, inform the media about it, and get the public interested. There would not be a challenge or debate (just discussion). However, I don't know if anyone around here would go for that or not. I might. Something like that might help "everyone" out, but I don't know if you all are that open minded (or feel like messing with such an ordeal). That' the best idea I have for now. If you guys can dream up something better, let me know.
The "ping" and "counter-ping" has been fun and informative. My ESP told me (in advance) that you wouldn't pay me $2000, so, I am waiting for my $10,000 check (that's not a challenge--that's check mate)! No "pun" intended mate!! Ha, Ha, ha!
Stay in touch from time to time (don't be a stranger). I live to joust another day.
Adios,
The Amazing Victor
We have had no recent correspondence from Victor Baines
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